I well support you my brother,taking our leaders to the Hague is like writing off Kenyas Judiciary.

Taking the envelop to the Hague will make Kenya be ruled by the Hague.

Kenya can never be ruled by the Hague.

I say no to the Hague

I support you Duncan on this Hague issue,Kenya can form a special tribunal headed by international Judges who should be free from Local influence.

Brother Duncan, allow me to challenge your case against the Hague.

..even though they are accused of killings,this isn’t supported by enough evidence for the same..

How much is ’enough’ evidence? Is it not the purpose of judicial process to test the veracity of whatever evidence that is available? Is this not why they’re ’suspects’? There is also such a thing as circumstantial evidence you know, with which many a court have convicted. I wonder what process you have used to assess that the available evidence is not enough!

so why take your people to the Hague if you can produce a judge for the Hague?

Judge Aluoch, and any of the others at the ICC, are chosen on the strength of their individual competence NOT as representatives of their country’s judicial systems. The ICC was not set up to try cases on behalf of incompetent judiciaries.

My friend Mr.Raila Odinga has every reason to fight the Hague route... now that he is one of the Principals, he has to show the world that he is not failing... that is why he has to maintain the support for the local tribunal.

Your friend has lost his marbles. Is he not the same one who said he had petitioned the Hague just after the election violence last year? Is he not the same one who refused to file a petition in the local courts when his victory was ”stolen” citing incompetence plus a million evils in our judiciary? So now he supports the same rotten judiciary just so that he doesn’t look like he has failed?! Tell your friend that he’s speaking rubbish.

The members of parliament fronting for the Hague are cowards who are being used and don’t care what impression we will make as a country when we take our people to the Hague

Being used by who? The victims of rape, murder and arson...? Have we now forgotten the thousands of lives lost and others traumatized and left destitute just because we wish to score a (weak) argument point for our political heroes? Impression?... What impression do we give when we butcher and rape in the name of ”defending our democracy”?

we have seen Rwanda,Congo,Darfur,Iraq and others,there is no way the Kenya issue has neared any of the above

Who said that the above are the yardstick for deciding who goes to the Hague or not? You almost make it sound like there is an on going competition for bloodletting!

we are by far having the best Judiciary in the region

This is news! No. This is fiction.

what is tainting our Judicial system is the lack of independence,the Executive interferes with the affairs of the Judiciary and the Judicial system allows it... we saw the chief Justice swear in the President at night. this was unethical and unlawful... before people start writing off our Judiciary they should start reducing the executives powers... I have noticed that parliament is facing intimidation from the Executive.

And yet this is the best Judiciary in the region? Have the executive powers been reduced? Has the judiciary been reformed or reconstituted? How then can anyone expect a fair process out of such a set up?

I submit that you have not made a case against the Hague. In fact, you have made it fairly clear why the Hague is necessary.

So, the bottom line is that our judicial system is largely incompetent.

This is the line about being a sovereign state? We couldn’t sort out our politics last year until ’foreigners’ stepped in. We cannot even feed ourselves and have to depend on foreign relief. We cannot drill a borehole or level a cattle track without donor funding... and we’re proud of our sovereignty?

Harun,we both know that the evidence or lack of it is not part of my argument,my argument here is that even the Person of Justice Joyce Aluoch is a product of the Kenyan Judicial system,i am amazed that you want to write that off. My friend has lost the marbles?i wonder if that is true,i will urge you not to Judge things by the look of the eye,Raila Odinga is now under a lot of pressure,he is against the Hague and not for the local courts,that is why infact there is the option of a special tribunal (If you didn’t know this is not like a local court)Raila remains to be a man whose office calls for a lot to be done despite having a small staff,i know the grudge you hold against Raila Odinga,please try to be non-partisan when addressing National Issues. Conserning our Judiciary,i said so not because the Judiciary is being interfered by the executive but because it is perfoming better than many in the region. Nobody said that Rwanda,Congo,Darfur,Iraq may be yardsticks for deciding who goes to the Hague or not,what i meant in that is that even if we packed all of the mentioned in one planne and took them to the Hague,they will just be like a drop in the Ocean,nobody will deal with them urgently and leave the cases that are or greater weight. I want to believe that you are only thinking of ’The victims of rape, murder and arson, thousands of lives lost and others traumatized and left destitute’ without closely checking the lineage of the violence,if you were to ask anyone today why people fought after the Elections they will tell you everybody was not happy with the election outcome,although this does not justify the deaths and the misuse of state forces to kill civilians,that is why justice must be realized to the perpetrators,financers and executioners of the post poll violence. Have you asked yourself why many Ministers voiced suppot of the motion and conspired with the Mps to shoot down the Bill in parliament? This is simply because they know that the Hague way is the loose way,they know that they can challenge it legaly and they are prepared to do so,ian all this it is the common mwananchi who is getting cheated. I will hold my ground until somebody proves me wrong,Hague is no option.

Harun,A man does not abuse his mother even if she is lame.

The bottom line is that the president,prime minister,ministers,mps,should not be anywhere near influencing the Tribunal,that is to say the leader of the special tribunal should come from out,the prosecutor the same and the others.

Surely Duncan,why is Harun so pessimistic?
I think anybody can understand that Justice Aluoch is a product of Kenya’s Judiciary and she has been ruling on cases in Kenya not Uganda!

That is true Makori,when we sought international help,Kenya was razing down,right now we are on our feet and we should be able to rise above personal interests for the sake of the nation.We are under no pressure to do anything and let us not hurry and regret later. A wise man always weighs his options.

This is it.

He is at liberty to air out his views,this is his freedom.

Does a man still insist that his mother is still a virgin?

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

Which is precisely what the Hague is all about. The wheel has already been invented.

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

Duncan, lets not go round in useless circles. You wrote,

they are accused of killings,this isn’t supported by enough evidence for the same

Now you’re saying that is not part of your argument? That your argument was about the person of Joyce Aluoch? Strange logic.

As for your friend Raila being under a lot of pressure, I’d suggest he gets out of the kitchen if he can’t stand the heat. The man has been in office for one year and his self appraisal report is just a litany of whining and grumbling about how he doesn’t have the capacity to perform. And he hasn’t even suggested how much time he needs to perform. I suspect he’s hoping that after whimpering a lot, we shall give him ten uninterrupted years at the helm!

try to be non-partisan when addressing National Issues

You are here suggesting that siding with Raila is the true measure of non-partisanship?

they will just be like a drop in the Ocean,nobody will deal with them urgently and leave the cases that are or greater weight

You haven’t quoted anything from ICC that spells out what it’s workload is or should be, and since I suspect that you do not hold brief for them, I’ll consider this as wishful thinking on your part. It is also a regular claim from the target suspects from whom such grasping at straws is expected.

I want to believe that you are only thinking of ’The victims of rape, murder and arson, thousands of lives lost and others traumatized and left destitute’ without closely checking the lineage of the violence

Of course I am. Do you really believe that an election outcome can justify any of those crimes?

if you were to ask anyone today why people fought after the Elections they will tell you everybody was not happy with the election outcome...

Anyone? Everybody? You’re thoroughly diluting the debate.

...although this does not justify the deaths and the misuse of state forces to kill civilians...

Self-contradiction. Again. That the killings are understandable because of ”the lineage of the violence”. And now the deaths cannot be justified.

You’re holding your ground but it is very shifty ground.

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

Surely Duncan,why is Harun so pessimistic?
I think anybody can understand that Justice Aluoch is a product of Kenya’s Judiciary and she has been ruling on cases in Kenya not Uganda!

Mathew, what point are you making in this debate? This is almost like heckling.

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

First, I have a big problem referring to murder, rape and arson suspects as ”our leaders”.

Second, the same suspects have over the years been at the forefront of writing off Kenya’s judiciary. That is why they even refused to go to court to dispute the election outcome. In january last year they even threatened to take each other to the Hague because they had no faith in the judiciary. When and how did they find this new love and faith in the same old judiciary?

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

My point is clear,am not proposing or supporting Raila,neither am i saying that Supporting Raila is being non-partisan,my point is that the way you attack him is always on a partisan angle. Can you tell me why for instance you say that Raila should leave the cabinet because he is facing too much heat? as for your ”The man has been in office for one year and his self appraisal report is just a litany of whining and grumbling about how he doesn’t have the capacity to perform. And he hasn’t even suggested how much time he needs to perform. I suspect he’s hoping that after whimpering a lot, we shall give him ten uninterrupted years at the helm! ” I think you are forgetting so fast that the Prime minister’s office is lacking staff,he is not able to execute his powers because they have been stolen by the presidency through the head of the civil service,if at all the Prime minister was able to control the cabinet,am sure he would combat even the corruption that is killing kenyans now(ministries get directives from the head of the civil service) something else is that we have to speak the truth here,the Prime minister is a man with vested constitutional executive powers but without the same in normal application. All these you chose to forget and write off. I din’t say the election outcome justified the deaths,i simply meant that much as we are to convict the violence culprits,let us also convict the violence cause which is and will remain the stolen mandate granted by the people. I further went ahead to say that state power should not have been misused and that it seems has brushed you the wrong way,on one side you are claiming to speak for the Raped,killed,hungry as a result of individuals whereas on the other you are not speaking out against the same as commissioned by government forces. Please don’t force words into my mouth Harun,at no time did i say that the Killings are understandable due to their link with the stolen election,try to look for another ground of attack. My ground may be shifty but you are standing on an edge my friend. Think beyond political affiliation and what must be done

Hei Duncan! I was not quick to comment on this particular post since i saw a hot debate ensue, everyone has a right to air their views and this is why I am throwing my weight behind Harun who has presented the case as it should be, we are totally out of order trying to prove otherwise while we were unable to solve the electoral results flaw in our own corridors of justice when we badly needed a home made solution, we were quick to seek international intervention since we could not trust our judiciary.
So what now! we have all of a sudden realized we have the most competent judiciary and ’we feel abused and belittled’ if we cannot be allowed to solve our cases?
Tribal and political affiliations aside, this all about our peaceful co-existence which is always strewn apart whenever we go to polls- remember how we spent sleepless nights glued onto our TV sets when neighbors turned against each other? aah Come on guys lets wake up and dust our faces, we are the sufferers let them present their cases the best way and prove innocent if they are, Kenya is simply seeking justice and i believe the judge will not convict anyone deemed innocent what are the jitters for?

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

Harun,let me tell you why i have the stand. The constitution amendment bill that sought to entrench the tribunal into law was flawed,for your information parliament was not against the local tribunal,parliament was against the bill because the government side under the leadership of Martha Karua refused to ammend the clauses that state -that a minister will remain in office untill proven guilty -Somebody won’t be charged due to influencing violence by his office(e.g the president can go free even if he ordered killings) These are some of the reasons why the Mps refused to put this in our law,which i supported but we have to agree that the Hague is not an option due to reasons i have given,first the Mps should push for the amendments in that bill then pass it failure to which they will go to the Hague. We should not support any exclusions here,if it is the president who is guilty he should be charged if it is the prime minister same be done and this we can achieve by having a tribunal free from the claws of the executive. The Hague is not an option but a close substitute that has been followed because the Mps don’t want to fight the executive and trim its powers.

What you are saying is true equally my point is true,so what do we do with all our problems? Whenever we have a problem we go for help from out because we went out when we failed to agree on that first instance?is that what you are suggesting rose? I believe that at that time no side was willing to accept blame,the country was divided and many were not listening any other language,they were only following their political leaders,that was their language,then it was necessary to bring a person who would reduce the gap created by the political greed of the time. But now, Why do we have to take our people to the Hague when we can do it from home using External judges?why can’t we avoid further embarassments as a country? I don’t support the current (local tribunal) bill as it is because it is applying unfair standards for the different leaders,it gives the culprits space to manipulate the process of seeking justice. That is why the Mps are demanding the amendments of these particular clauses then they can pass pass the bill. So.. If we are to go the hague way and fail to correct the obstacle that always hinder justice in kenya,will we be taking all our major cases to the Hague thereafter because our courts are incompetent?or are we going to work on our courts so that they can work for us? Rose,Kenya has come from very far,we have learnt our lesson in the violence and am sure every kenyan is determined to move forward,the Hague is not and will never be the answer if this has to be maintained. I say no to the Hague. On 2/19/09, Rose Ng’ang’a

They didn’t find love in the same old Judiciary,the have realized they can make a special tribunal independent from the ’same old Judiciary’

There was nothing wrong with the constitution amendment bill itself. The problem was the special tribunal law which it was seeking to entrench in the constitution. As you rightly say, and as majority of the MPs agreed, that particular law on the tribunal was severely flawed such that no credible process could possibly come out of it.

Would you not agree that, with all our legal expertise, this failure to draft a credible special tribunal law is testimony enough for the unwillingness/incompetence of our systems to deliver justice? You rightly say that the problems with the local option are those to do with excusions, presidential pardons, executive interference etc... So what exactly are you supporting or expecting of the local option when the powers that be continue to demonstrate that those are the very clauses they want. As one minister put it ”..so that we can control it..”! Who do you think is going to make those amendments? You mention that the government side refused to make those amendments and the MPs don’t want to trim the powers of the executive. So by what magic are we going to bring about the structures conducive for a local process?

There was nothing wrong with the constitution amendment bill itself. The problem was the special tribunal law which it was seeking to entrench in the constitution. As you rightly say, and as majority of the MPs agreed, that particular law on the tribunal was severely flawed such that no credible process could possibly come out of it.

Would you not agree that, with all our legal expertise, this failure to draft a credible special tribunal law is testimony enough for the unwillingness/incompetence of our systems to deliver justice? You rightly say that the problems with the local option are those to do with excusions, presidential pardons, executive interference etc... So what exactly are you supporting or expecting of the local option when the powers that be continue to demonstrate that those are the very clauses they want. As one minister put it ”..so that we can control it..”! Who do you think is going to make those amendments? You mention that the government side refused to make those amendments and the MPs don’t want to trim the powers of the executive. So by what magic are we going to bring about the structures conducive for a local process?

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

It is not the system that is unwilling to deliver Justice,it is omly a few individuals who want to misuse the system that is why the MPs should fight for the independence of any tribunal or system that will be fixed in our constitution so as to avoid some individuals from escaping the net as it is now.

the very MPs who shot down the government sponsored bill have the powers to effect any change in any bill only if they want,we are talking about collective responsibility here in the part of every MP who is fed up with impunity. Let the Mps come out and demand the amendments in the bill instead of waiting for the tabling of the bill next time only to point out how flawed it is.

Can you tell me why for instance you say that Raila should leave the cabinet because he is facing too much heat?

Facing the heat is not the problem. His problem is that he cannot stand it. That is why he is constantly whining. Totally uninspiring.

Prime minister’s office is lacking staff

Does he not know how to go about staffing it? And where have the millions of shillings allocated for his office been going to? Why is he sticking to a powerless office, without a salary and with no staff? What work is he really doing?

he is not able to execute his powers because they have been stolen by the presidency through the head of the civil service

This is empty sloganeering for Raila’s weekend rallies. Assuming it was true, it then goes further to confirm that he has no work to do in government and should have left the moment he discovered the ’theft’ because he has no chance of recovering it.

if at all the Prime minister was able to control the cabinet,am sure he would combat even the corruption that is killing kenyans

Among his duties, as clearly stated in the constitution, is to co-ordinate functions of government. What other control does he want in order to function? Can he, or you, give an example of when he tried to combat corruption but was unable because of lacking cabinet control? Does he not constantly remind us that he and Kibaki are sharing executive power 50/50? If he now finds that his 50% portion is mere gas, can he not find the courage to walk out for being duped?

the Prime minister is a man with vested constitutional executive powers but without the same in normal application

Surely, any one who has been given executive powers by the constitution and cannot execute them is, quite simply, incompetent. Otherwise, what other tools does he want in order to execute his powers?

With all of Raila’s complaining about lack of capacity to perform, one year down the line, it is safe to assume that he is actually idling in government in a very grand way.

will get back to you soon – Duncan Ogaro Mikae www.dunpresident.synthasite.com

”Surely, any one who has been given executive powers by the constitution and cannot execute them is, quite simply, incompetent. Otherwise, what other tools does he want in order to execute his powers?” This you say ignorantly, you know very well why Kibaki is not on the press to answer many questions for example,Dr.Alfred Mutua is there to speak for him, When He is not happy with some media houses,Dr.Mutua will hit at them When there is something wrong with security Gichangi is there to face it, When there is something wrong somewhere else,there will be someone to answer that, But you know what,Raila Odinga,a man who runs an office without tools will fight for himself, If there is something to be released for the press,he will do it, If he has a problem with the press he is the one to come out and fight the press, with this,you cannot tell me the executive powers mean anything if the coalition partner is not willing to make work easier for the PM,If there is any blame in this case,the PM is to shoulder it himself. Can we now say that the PM is idling in the government in a grand way if we are not driven with partisan interests? Or The Fact that you don’t want to give a thought of why the PM might be ”constantly whining” as you categorically put it,only adds to the partisan aspect of your argument. Believe me Harun,i will tell you hundred timesand wont get tired at it,’you are partisan and your Hatred for Raila Odinga is the acute disease that affects you’,you are not coming in this discussion table with a balanced ration.

Guys am sory for the automatic reply from my mail box”will get back to you soon”
This has made me look like a fool,
I have sorted it out.

My point is just one Mr.Lumiti,you are one pessimistic fellow.
And if i am a heckler well and good but remember,it takes one heckler to find another.

”will get back to you soon”

Well Duncan,i realized that this was systematic and was coming with every comment,it is good you have explained yourself otherwise i had started thinking that you are just commenting like some people do to increase comments on their posts.

”Among his duties, as clearly stated in the constitution, is to co-ordinate functions of government. What other control does he want in order to function?”

Mr.Lumiti,you say the above because you don’t know what Muthaura is doing.
I will say you are a big fool if you still reason like an old man the way you are doing.

Mathew,take it easy.

Harun,I think i clearly said or heckled that the leader of the special tribunal be from out,i never mentioned the Hague?

Sure,thank you for understanding,i realised this when i came to my page,you know mostly i reply the comments from my mail box and i unknowingly messed my settings to include the mail signature plus the automatic mail reply,this was not intentional

You always have problems understanding most things.

The point is that there is a hidden movement that is out to undermine the office of the Prime minister and this is the only thing that we are forgetting although it is way far from the topic of discussion.

Mathew you are not a Heckler,be asured that.

A man is not allowed to make these judgements,someone’s mother remains the Mother,be it virgin,lame or any other example that you might want to use.
It is only a mad man who can measure his mothers virginity or laugh at his lame mother.
And that man might as well be you.

Mathew this is not a health talk

This is right Abigael

”A man is not allowed to make these judgements,someone’s mother remains the Mother,be it virgin,lame or any other example that you might want to use. It is only a mad man who can measure his mothers virginity or laugh at his lame mother.” This is a good thought Mathew.

Mathew, do try and calm down. That way, you might just manage to grasp a logical train of thought and engage in a meaningful discourse. This is not an appropriate forum for ’mchongoano’.

you say the above because you don’t know what Muthaura is doing.

Muthaura is doing his job, heading the civil service, executing his boss’s (the President) instructions and being secretary to cabinet. He cannot be blamed for the PMs seeming inability to find his bearings and assert his authority. Muthaura is just doing his job. What Raila is doing is using Muthaura as a scapegoat for his ’impotence’.

Obviously being outshone by his junior is not comfortable for Raila. But complaining about it at every rally hasn’t and will not fix that. Not even his most virulent supporters can.

I will say you are a big fool if you still reason like an old man the way you are doing.

So reasoning like an old man is foolishness? This is a statement that reflects pretty badly on our education system and whatever you might have gotten out of it. I could of course give you the benefit of doubt and say that you wrote it only out of anger. That too, is sad and a pointer to the sort of hot-blooded mindlessness of our ’youth’ when they rushed to slaughter each other last year simply because they could not stand an opposing point of view.

True you never mentioned the Hague, but the underlying principle that leads you to suggest that ”the leader of the special tribunal should come from out,the prosecutor the same and the others” is the same: that the local systems are incompetent, unwilling and manipulable.

That is why i said before that the Hague might look like a substitute but not an option here,this is why i say we should device the option by incoporating what would be done at the Hague locally to avoid continued dependence on the outer world to sort our mess out.

The local system can only be manipulatable if we fail to make it unmanipulatable,man you sound like a man who has given up hope but is ready to hold on to history

Mathew, your pseudo-psychologist skills are a wee bit amusing but I wish you could leave them aside so that we debate the issues at hand...ooh big fool.. ooh madman.. ooh pessimist.. ooh hopeless.. these are ’contributions’ with zero value.

Now, who is going to make the local system unmanipulable and when? The unwillingness by both the executive and parliament has already been demonstrated, especially last week when they shot down the amendment bill.

There are already in place international institutions in which Kenya subscribes so that the issue of surrendering our pride/sovereignty need not arise. The fear of the Hague by the suspects is understandable. Yours is not clear at all.

Harun i think that you are also affected by pseudo-psychologist skills.

Really? Interesting to know.

The problem with the ’affliction’ is when it is employed, deliberately or otherwise, as a diversionary tool to escape debate. I wouldn’t actually mind if Mathew, or even you, called me big fool/madman/pessimist and backed it up with cogent argument. But constantly spurting one-liners that contain only invective does nothing to promote exchange of views.

’The problem with the ’affliction’ is when it is employed, deliberately or otherwise’

Why is it that when it is you who is on the receiving end you want to play good but when it is you who is being called pseudo-psychologistic you come out strongly and brush it off as a mere means of escaping from a debate?but when you call Makori the same you want it justified as a clever way of debating.

When you hit at me or us by saying ”I wouldn’t actually mind if Mathew, or even you, called me big fool/madman/pessimist” you only potray a man who is out to alienate others without giving them a moment for them to say there points out,you want to be declared undisputed champion,this i say because i find it foolish an act to lay those allegations on me yet i have not come out abusive to you.

Let me tell you Harun Lumiti,i don’t want to be pulled into this debate because it is a pointless debate,everything is on the table and i see no need of fighting here,this is not what you think,

First, this is not a fight and i did not pull you into the debate. You made your comment of your own volition.

Interesting to note that rather than respond to my earlier response to your first comment, you chose to enter the ’fight’ i was having with Mathew.

Second, how is it possible for me to ”alienate others without giving them a moment for them to say there points out”? To have your points refuted cannot surely be alienation! Unless you think that your points are solidly irrefutable and cannot be put to the test.

Third, when you say ”everything is on the table and i see no need of fighting here” you imply that all comments here must be in support of the post. That not siding with you is fighting. That would make this forum utterly useless.

As for saying that...

Why is it that when it is you who is on the receiving end you want to play good but when it is you who is being called pseudo-psychologistic you come out strongly and brush it off as a mere means of escaping from a debate?but when you call Makori the same you want it justified as a clever way of debating.

...I see that you completely missed my point. I’ll put it this way, call me whatever you wish, but while you’re at it please do make a point that has something to do with the issue at hand.

Finally, I have no idea what it is i’m supposed to be wanting to be declared undisputed champion of but my pseudo-psychologist skills tell me that you’re incapable of debate.

For the sake of your comfort and happiness, I can pledge here not to touch any of your comments. You are welcome to comment on mine and I promise to respond with softest of kid-gloves I can find.

”For the sake of your comfort and happiness, I can pledge here not to touch any of your comments. You are welcome to comment on mine and I promise to respond with softest of kid-gloves I can find.”

Is this all you can say?

Do you think that Kid-gloves are the best that one can have in this case?

I can only say that you are affected by Male chauvenism.

Guys,let’s forcus on the topic i think it is better to bring our heated arguments in here with meaningfull opposition or support of the post on the table,what is here my friends is not healthy. I think it would be best if everyone articulated him/herself with respect to the other member on the floor. I welcome your comments on my latest Post, Oh Kenya! I cry for My country Kenya

All is Okay Wayne

Articulation by a formed mind is always not healthy if the same mind is not informed,as much as my plea may seem in vain,someone somewhere might listen to the voice of reason behind it.
Thank you Wayne for stopping by.

Duncan and Wayne,the problem with many people is that they will never accept to be seen as defeated in anything,at most times they always want to carry the day however pointless they may be,that is what is happening with most of our people here.

Duncan you are right,some exchanges are irrelevant here,they have turned out to be personal egos put forward before the principles of collective responsibility to uphold morality.

Systems are made by people and it is the responsibility of the people to make systems better failure to which they shall be judged by History.

Who said that we cannot feed ourselves?
I think this is not the case,the problem with Kenya is with poor leadership and that is what should be dealt with to protect the common man from facing the Hunger

Johnstone,some people are just thick and mistake it for smartness

Yet the line between smartness and thickness is very thick.

Harun,we must be proud of our sovereignty,as a nation we share one dream,we share the same blood and history,whatever is done by politicians should not make the ’wananchi’ be victimized,as the common people we are the ones who suffer most and we are Kenya,the government is the people because it is the people that choose leaders to be in government,when one fails as a leader it is not the general populace of kenya that has failed and that is why i say Our sovereignty should be protected at all cost,politicians come and go but Our Beloved country is here to stay.

Very true

It’s true Johnny although let us not rule out the fact that everybody has a right to his/her own opinion and in most cases if it is a wrong one he/she should be helped by being guided transitionally to the truth.

That is what i have always believed,many will be judged by history.

Duncan’s calls won’t fall on deaf ears if Harun Lumiti will stop bossing around.

Mr.Logic i never meant to differ with Duncan,i was only supporting your comment that ”Articulation by a formed mind can only hear their own articulation”
i wasn’t fighting Duncan’s stand in fact i support him in this.
I beg to differ and please,remember that i know how to read the school i went to had an English teacher.

Johnstone,it is very good if you are with me,i had thought you had changed all over a sudden and decided to fight me,i am a happy man.

Wayne,thank you for coming to my help,am sure with time people will learn how to differentiate between reason and excuse.

what is all this argument about,why are you people even getting alot of energy wasted in the arguments when you would positively use it to critically analyze the post and beef it up or scale it down individually.

You are no outsider here Wayne,as a matter of fact,everybody in the community is supposed to support each other and that means if you follow up something smoking in Kenya,you can also comment on it and differ with people on the same.
It is good to have caring guys in Instablog network.

Wayne,it is your contribution that count here not your geographical location,physically you are an outsider yes but practically you are one of us,pushing the same agenda all through.